重点(Top highlight)
Casey Newton, The Verge’s longtime Silicon Valley editor and the creator of The Interface newsletter, is leaving the publication to start a newsletter on Substack called Platformer.
卡西·牛顿( C asey Newton)， The Verge长期的硅谷编辑，也是The Interface通讯的作者， 即将离开出版物 在Substack上创建名为Platformer的新闻通讯。
Newton, who started at The Verge in 2013, has published more than 570 issues of The Interface since it launched in October 2017. The newsletter currently boasts more than 20,000 subscribers. The Interface usually follows the themes of content moderation, disinformation, and the negative effects of social media on society. The focus is frequently on the omnipresent and ever-controversial Facebook, but the newsletter also covers companies like TikTok, Apple, Google, Amazon, and more.
牛顿，谁在2013年，在边缘开始，发表了超过570 ISSüES上的接口，因为它在2017年10月推出的通讯目前拥有2个万多用户。 该界面通常遵循内容适度，虚假信息以及社交媒体对社会的负面影响的主题。 人们经常将注意力集中在无所不在且备受争议的Facebook上，但该新闻通讯还涵盖了TikTok，苹果，谷歌，亚马逊等公司。
During The Interface’s run, Newton also published multiple investigative pieces about the working conditions for platform content moderators, two of which were nominated for ASME awards.
在The Interface的运行期间，牛顿还发表了许多有关平台内容主持人的工作条件的调查性文章，其中两篇获得了ASME奖提名。
I interviewed Newton over Zoom about the pros and cons of going independent, the economics of subscription models, and what Substack means for the future of journalism.
我通过Zoom采访了Newton，探讨了走向独立的利弊，订阅模型的经济学以及Substack对新闻业未来的意义。
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
为了清楚起见，本次采访已经过编辑和整理。
Sarah Jeong: Congrats! What does your new newsletter look like? Is it going to be called The Interface? Are you bringing over your subscription base?
Casey Newton: I am changing the name. When I began this process, it was with the assumption that I would not have access to the IP or the email list.
郑秀妍：恭喜！ 您的新时事通讯是什么样的？ 它会被称为接口吗？ 您是否要移转您的订阅基础？ 凯西·牛顿：我正在改名字。 当我开始此过程时，假设我将无法访问IP或电子邮件列表。
When I started The Interface, it was kind of a pun on Facebook — it was sort of like between Facebook and the world. And now that I’m writing about more platforms, I wanted to lead into that.
当我启动The Interface时，在Facebook上有点像个双关语-就像在Facebook和全世界之间。 现在，我正在写更多平台，我想带头进入。
I’m calling it Platformer — it informs you about platforms. But also in video games, a platformer is one where you jump from platform to platform, and to me, that’s the defining quality of modern life. We go from Twitter to Facebook to YouTube and back.
我称它为Platformer-它会告诉您有关平台的信息。 而且在视频游戏中，平台游戏是您从一个平台跳到另一个平台的平台，对我来说，这就是现代生活的定义质量。 我们从Twitter到Facebook再到YouTube。
I’ll be able to take my mailing list with me when I leave. I’ll remain a contributing editor at The Verge, and you can expect more columns and features from me there in the months to come.
我离开时可以随身携带邮件清单。 我将继续担任The Verge的特约编辑，您将在接下来的几个月中期待更多的专栏和功能。
“I’m calling it ‘Platformer’ — it informs you about platforms.”
“我称它为' Platformer'-它会向您介绍平台。”
When did you make the decision? When did Substack manage to seduce you away?I have been talking to Substack — just about their company — basically since they started it. They had approached me last year with a pretty compelling offer to jump. At the time, it just didn’t feel like the right move.
您何时决定的？ Substack是什么时候引诱您的？ 自从他们成立以来，我就一直在和Substack谈论他们的公司。 去年他们向我提出了一个非常诱人的跳伞提议。 当时，这只是不正确的举动。
But a year later, the pandemic came along, and it just changed a lot for me. I sort of realized that I could do a ton of my job from inside my house. I could do all this digital reporting and could maybe even work on some new and different things because I had all this extra time on my hands.
但是一年后，大流行病来了，这对我来说变化很大。 我有点意识到我可以在家中做很多工作。 我可以进行所有这些数字报告，甚至可以处理一些新的和不同的事情，因为我将所有这些额外的时间都花在了手上。
It’s sort of like you’re in jail, and you have nothing but time to think about what you’ll do on the outside. That’s sort of how I felt during the pandemic. I turned 40, and… Substack just did some interesting things. They’re really helping writers build communities, they’re helping readers discover new writers, and some writers are having this incredible success out there on their own.
这就好比您在监狱里一样，除了时间之外，您没有时间考虑自己将在外面做什么。 这就是我在大流行期间的感受。 我40岁了，……Substack做了一些有趣的事情。 他们确实在帮助作家建立社区，他们在帮助读者发现新作家，而有些作家则靠自己取得了令人难以置信的成功。
So that was one set of factors. Another factor was just that I’ve been a journalist for 18 years now. The entire time, I’ve been nervous about what’s going on in the ad market. First I saw the web come along and disrupt the print newspapers I was working for. Then the platforms came along and disrupted the digital properties I was working for. Along the way, thousands of really talented journalists lost their jobs. I always wondered if there were alternative business models we could explore, and if they were successful, could we help figure out more sustainable, replicable models for journalists to snap their fingers and create their own jobs?
因此，这是一组因素。 另一个因素就是我已经当了18年记者。 一直以来，我一直对广告市场的发展感到紧张。 首先，我看到网络出现并打乱了我工作的印刷报纸。 然后，平台出现了，并破坏了我正在工作的数字资产。 一路上，成千上万的才华横溢的新闻工作者失业。 我一直想知道是否存在其他可以探索的商业模式，如果成功了，我们是否可以为记者找到更具可持续性，可复制的模式，以使他们精打细算并创造自己的工作？
Because if we could do that, we could get more journalists working, we could have a much more diverse journalism community than we have today, and we’d have these publications that are not dependent on advertising. That could lead to some interesting creative possibilities.
因为如果我们能够做到这一点，我们就能让更多的记者工作，我们可以拥有比今天更多的新闻界，并且这些出版物将不依赖广告。 这可能会带来一些有趣的创造可能性。
It was sort of a swirl of all those things. It led me to say you know what, let’s just try something.
那是所有这些事情的漩涡。 它使我说您知道什么，让我们尝试一下。
I’m glad we’ve cut to the heart of this. I haven’t been a journalist as long as you have, but we’ve both been around the block — I’ve spent time freelancing, in digital, in the legacy print papers, and so on. We both know that the benefit of being at an institution is health insurance, legal assistance, and editing. How much of this are you about to get from Substack?Not a ton. I’d say that legal is about the biggest protection they’re offering, and it’s very significant. They’ve said they’ll spend up to a million dollars in your defense, and when you’re writing about potentially litigious companies, that matters a lot. Of everything Substack offered me, that’s most important.
我很高兴我们已经做到了这一点。 只要您有，我就没有当过新闻记者，但是我们俩都处在障碍之中–我花了很多时间在自由职业上，以数字方式，在旧版纸上等等。 我们俩都知道，在机构工作的好处是健康保险，法律援助和编辑。 您将从Substack中获得多少？ 不多。 我想说法律是他们提供的最大保护，这非常重要。 他们说过，他们将为您的辩护花费多达一百万美元，而当您撰写有关潜在诉讼公司的文章时，这很重要。 Substack提供给我的所有东西中，最重要的是。
On health care, they’re offering me a small subsidy for a year. But more important to me, they’re just helping me figure it out. They’re hooking me up with a company that’ll help me choose from some plans, and I’ll just be able to log into a website and click some buttons and it seems like I’ll have health care. Which, as someone who is not good at managing the bureaucratic aspects of my life, is really appealing to me.
在医疗保健方面，他们为我提供了一年的小额补贴。 但是对我来说更重要的是，它们只是在帮助我解决问题。 他们与我建立了一家可以帮助我从一些计划中进行选择的公司，并且我将能够登录到一个网站并单击一些按钮，看来我将获得医疗保健。 作为一个不擅长管理我生活中官僚主义的人，这确实吸引了我。
Something I would say is that I didn’t want to lean too hard on Substack offering me a bunch of services, because if I’m reliant on Substack for the thing to work, then it’s not really working in the way I envisioned. The dream to me is that I find some subset of the people who subscribe to my newsletter today, who like it and want to support it, and I can just pay all my bills with their generosity, and we can just go out and do good journalism that way. It needs to work that way if it’s really going to work.
我要说的是，我不想过于依赖Substack为我提供大量服务的原因，因为如果我依靠Substack来使事情正常进行，那么它并不是按照我所设想的那样工作。 对我来说，梦想是找到一些今天订阅我的新闻通讯的人的子集，他们喜欢并希望支持它，我可以慷慨地付清所有账单，我们可以出去做点好事这样的新闻。 如果它真的可以工作，就需要以这种方式工作。
“If I’m reliant on Substack for the thing to work, then it’s not really working in the way that I envisioned.”
“如果我依靠Substack来工作，那么它实际上并没有按照我所设想的那样工作。”
What does this deal look like? I assume they didn’t just say, “Hey, come here from the Verge, with a stable salary and health insurance, and you can make your own money by putting up your own shingle.” What was their pitch?To some extent it was just kind of “control your destiny.” It was also “give yourself uncapped upside.” There is a ceiling to how much any media company will pay you. I have to say, Vox Media always treated me super well, and I have zero complaints about how they treated me. I think they were always very generous to me from day one. But again, there are limits.
这笔交易看起来像什么？ 我想他们不会只是说：“嘿，从边缘来到这里，那里有稳定的薪水和健康保险，您可以自己盖张屋顶赚钱。” 他们的音高是多少？ 在某种程度上，这只是一种“控制自己的命运”。 这也“给了自己无限的上涨空间。” 任何媒体公司向您支付的费用都有上限。 我不得不说，Vox Media总是对我非常好，对于他们对我的态度我零投诉。 我认为从第一天起，他们对我就一直很慷慨。 但同样，有限制。
When you look at the economics of newsletters, there are opportunities that are bigger for some writers than any media company can match. If you can find 10,000 people to pay you $100 a year, you’re making $1 million a year. No one in media is going to pay you that unless you’re the anchor of a popular news show or something.
当您看新闻通讯的经济学时，对于某些作家来说，机会是任何媒体公司都无法比拟的。 如果您可以找到10,000人，每年支付给您$ 100，则您每年可赚取$ 100万。 除非您是受欢迎的新闻节目或其他节目的主持人，否则没有媒体会向您付款。
I’m not going to get to 10,000 subscribers anytime soon, but if I can work toward that over time, not only will I be in a position where I’m doing well for myself, but I’ll be in a position where I can create media jobs. I can hire someone to go out and do more reporting. I can hire an editor. I can hire a graphics person. I can start to — in this tiny, tiny way — rebuild a little of what has been lost and figure some things out for the future. That just seemed like a really cool bet to make. Maybe I can actually start a tiny media company out of this and do some really cool stuff.
我不会很快达到10,000个订阅者，但是如果我能随着时间的推移朝着这个方向努力，我不仅会处于自己为自己做得很好的位置，而且会处于一个我自己的位置可以创建媒体工作。 我可以雇人出去做更多的报告。 我可以聘请编辑。 我可以雇用一名绘图员。 我可以以这种微小的方式开始-重建一些丢失的东西，并为将来弄清楚一些事情。 这似乎是一个很酷的选择。 也许我实际上可以以此为基础成立一家小型媒体公司，并做一些非常酷的事情。
So, in a way, you’re replicating what once was.In some senses, yes. A lot of what I do is replicating the logic of a trade publication. I write really in-depth industry news at the intersection of government, which makes it slightly different from the average trade publication. But the people subscribing to it are people working on the communications teams, people who work on the policy teams, even executive teams. The groups who want to understand how their companies are being perceived day to day.
因此，以某种方式，您正在复制曾经的东西。 从某种意义上说是的。 我所做的很多事情都是在复制贸易出版物的逻辑。 我在政府交界处写了非常深入的行业新闻，这使其与一般贸易出版物略有不同。 但是，订阅它的人是在沟通团队中工作的人，在政策团队中甚至在执行团队中工作的人。 想要了解他们的公司如何被日常看待的小组。
So, that’s just kind of a trade publication. But trade publications have big traditional newsrooms. They have all those legacy costs, and I’m not going to. I’m one reporter against the world, but if I can do a good job of curating the most important stories of the day, write some analysis, generate tips, turn those into big feature stories—which will, by the way, run outside of my publication; I’ll freelance those somewhere else—then it starts to look a little bit different.
因此，这只是一种商业出版物。 但是贸易出版物拥有大型的传统新闻编辑室。 他们承担了所有这些遗留成本，我不会。 我是反对世界的记者，但如果我能很好地策划当天最重要的故事，请撰写一些分析报告，生成技巧，然后将其转变为大人物故事-顺便说一下，这些故事会在外面传播我的出版物； 我将在其他地方自由职业者-然后开始看起来有些不同。
The other way it looks different is you are building a community. And that’s something I’m really at square one about. I definitely include reader feedback in a lot of my newsletters, but I’ve never tried to cultivate it as a community where I’m, like, starting a Friday thread where people can jump on and debate the issues of the day. And I really want to see what is in that community, what they want me to report on. That feels really interesting to me and kind of different from what has come before.
看起来与众不同的另一种方式是您正在建立社区。 这就是我真正想知道的事情。 我肯定在很多新闻通讯中都包含了读者反馈，但是我从未尝试过将其培养成一个我喜欢的社区，例如，开始一个星期五的话题，人们可以参与讨论今天的问题。 我真的很想看看那个社区里有什么，他们想让我报告什么。 这对我来说真的很有趣，并且与以前有所不同。
So, feature stories. The Trauma Floor, your investigative piece about Facebook content moderators, was nominated for an Ellie. You say you want to keep doing feature reporting, but one of the things about features, as we both know, is that investigative reporting takes a lot of up-front costs, and publications usually have to bear those costs. Do you anticipate any tension with trying to do investigations without having the backing of a large media company?
因此，特色故事。 您对Facebook内容主持人的调查作品《创伤地板》(Trauma Floor)被提名艾莉(Ellie)。 您说您想继续进行特征报告，但是众所周知，关于特征的一件事是调查报告需要很多前期费用，出版物通常要承担这些费用。 在没有大型媒体公司支持的情况下，您尝试进行调查会不会有任何紧张气氛？
Yeah, potentially. There are definitely things media companies do for writers that I’m giving up. The ability to hop on a plane, stay in Austin for a week at SXSW just to check it out — those things are hugely expensive. So that is something I’m going to have to figure out. At the same time, if you look at the kind of reporting I’m doing, it’s focused largely on the geographical area I live in.
是的，可能。 媒体公司肯定会放弃我为作家所做的事情。 能够跳上飞机，在SXSW奥斯汀待一个星期只是为了检查一下的能力-这些东西非常昂贵。 这就是我要弄清楚的事情。 同时，如果您查看我正在做的报告的类型，它主要集中在我居住的地理区域。
Even in a time when we are allowed to meet up face-to-face once again, I’m still going to be physically close to people I’m writing about. That’s something I have going for me. You know, another thing I would say is if other writers pursue this model, I wouldn’t be surprised if we just saw more partnerships with publications. Like maybe I get a hot tip; I go to a publication and say, “I wanna work on this thing. Would you be willing to share expenses with me?” And maybe we can figure something out.
即使在我们被允许再次面对面见面的时候，我仍然会在身体上接近我正在写的人。 那就是我想要的东西。 您要知道，我要说的另一件事是，如果其他作家采用这种模式，只要我们看到与出版物的更多合作伙伴，我就不会感到惊讶。 好像我得到了一个热门提示； 我去一家刊物说：“我想研究这个东西。 您愿意与我分担费用吗？” 也许我们可以找出答案。
Do you see the big guys going away? We’ve seen the rise and fall of several different enterprises. But do you see some of these existing things going away or evolving? It sounds like you see your own future as working in tandem with existing models.My hope is we figure out a third sustainable, attractive business model. We know that subscriptions for big newsrooms work. Like, for the New York Times and Washington Post, that works. We know if you’re a big, scaled-up ad business on the web like Vox Media, we know that works. That generates a lot of revenue and will continue to.
你看到大个子走了吗？ 我们已经看到了几种不同企业的兴衰。 但是您看到这些现有事物中的一些正在消失或发展吗？ 听起来您像在与现有模型协同工作，看到了自己的未来。 我希望我们能找到第三个可持续的，有吸引力的商业模式。 我们知道大型新闻编辑室的订阅工作。 就像，对于《纽约时报》和《华盛顿邮报》来说，这是可行的。 我们知道，如果您像Vox Media一样是网络上规模较大的大型广告企业，我们知道这是可行的。 这将产生大量收入，并将继续下去。
What we don’t know is if you’re a writer with a following, can you use that to build a sustainable career in journalism? The question is will the influencer economy be relevant to journalism at all?
我们不知道的是，如果您是一个有一定追随者的作家，您可以利用它来建立可持续的新闻事业吗？ 问题是影响者经济是否会与新闻业息息相关？
And I think so. We have a generation of kids growing up right now who are used to buying merch from their favorite YouTubers, tipping their favorite TikTokers, subscribing to Patreons, backing Kickstarters.
我也这么认为。 我们现在有一代孩子在成长，他们习惯从喜爱的YouTubers购买商品，给喜爱的TikTokers小费，订阅Patreons，支持Kickstarters。
And you just look at that swirl of things, and you think, gosh, if there’s a subject that’s really important to me, particularly if it’s related to my job, like the work that i’m doing every day, and I feel like there’s a person who just gets it better than anyone else does, and they’re going to bring me some fresh news and analysis three or four times a week, that might be something I’m willing to pay 10 bucks a month for.
然后，您只需要看一下事物的漩涡，天哪，如果有一个对我来说真的很重要的主题，特别是如果它与我的工作相关，例如我每天在做的工作，并且我觉得一个比其他人做得更好的人，他们每周会给我带来三四次新的消息和分析，这也许就是我愿意每月支付10美元的事情。
Again, the economics are good. I only need to find 2,000 of those people to have a really good job. I only need to find 1,000 of those people for it to be a better salary than the vast majority of all journalists in America. So I think you’re going to see more writers finding out that they’re wasting their time on Twitter. Once they have enough Twitter followers, they might have some new opportunities open to them.
再次，经济学是好的。 我只需要找到这些人中的2,000个即可拥有出色的工作。 我只需要找到这些人中的1,000名，即可获得比美国绝大多数新闻工作者更高的薪水。 因此，我认为您将看到更多作家发现他们在Twitter上浪费时间。 一旦拥有足够的Twitter追随者，他们可能会获得一些新的机会。
But again, it’s a question mark. We have to see if it works. And that said, it absolutely is working for people like Emily Atkin, Judd Legum, Andrew Sullivan, Anne Helen Petersen. These people are making it work. And it gives me a lot of hope.
但这又是一个问号。 我们必须看看它是否有效。 就是说，它绝对适用于像Emily Atkin，Judd Legum，Andrew Sullivan和Anne Helen Petersen这样的人。 这些人正在使其工作。 这给了我很多希望。
There’s a kind of irony here, right? One of the things that we tech journalists make fun of is how many subscription models there are for every other media form — Netflix, Spotify, all that stuff. We all joke about how we’re just going to bundle everything and get cable again. Do you foresee bundling yourself with Anne Helen Petersen, and then we just get another digital property?I do think that bundles are in this future, 100%. I think a question to ask is: Is it more likely that everyone will keep an à la carte price for their product and figure out some kind of bundle with other writers (who they’re either good friends with or they have some kind of subject-matter relation to), or does somebody do Netflix for Substack?
这里有点讽刺，对吗？ 我们的技术记者喜欢的一件事是，其他媒体形式(Netflix，Spotify等)有多少种订阅模式。 我们都开玩笑说我们将如何捆绑所有东西并重新获得电缆。 您是否预见到将自己与Anne Helen Petersen捆绑在一起，然后我们又获得了另一个数字资产？ 我确实认为捆绑包在未来会是100％。 我认为有一个问题要问：每个人是否更有可能保持产品的单点价格并与其他作家(他们是好朋友或他们有某种主题)捆绑在一起-matter关系)，还是有人为Netflix做Netflix？
If you talk to Substack, they’ll tell you they do not want to do Netflix for Substack. They don’t think it’s good for the writers. By the way, I think all their writers would agree with them. Nobody wants to be fighting for their share of $9.99 a month. But will somebody try that if this thing becomes successful? Yeah.
如果您与Substack交谈，他们会告诉您他们不想对Netflix使用Substack。 他们认为这对作家没有好处。 顺便说一句，我认为他们所有的作家都会同意他们的观点。 没有人愿意为每月9.99美元的份额而奋斗。 但是，如果这件事成功了，有人会尝试吗？ 是的
And then it’ll be like anything else where you look at the math and see where the math is better. I’ve had one person tell me that bundles only work when it’s all or nothing. Like cable worked because you had to get cable to get anything. And I’ve had other people tell me that à la carte pricing is the thing that makes bundles work because that’s the source of all the new customers for the bundle. You find your superfans who love you, but then you tell them, by the way, spend an extra two bucks a month and you can have this other thing that’s really cool. Then, all of a sudden, that other person is getting this incremental revenue.
然后，它将像其他任何东西一样，您可以在数学上看看并且数学在哪里更好。 我有一个人告诉我，捆绑软件只有在全部或全部不使用时才起作用。 就像电缆一样，因为您必须获得电缆才能获得任何东西。 而且我也有其他人告诉我，单点定价是使捆绑销售商品生效的原因，因为这是捆绑销售商品的所有新客户的来源。 您找到了爱您的超级粉丝，但是然后您告诉他们，顺便说一句，每月花费两美元，您就可以拥有另一件非常酷的东西。 然后，突然之间，另一个人获得了这个增量收入。
To me, that really is the frontier that we have to figure out. And I don’t know how it’s going to shake out.
对我来说，这确实是我们必须弄清的前沿。 而且我不知道它会如何摆脱。
How will you cover Substack if Substack’s own moderation issues become part of your beat?I’m gonna cover the hell out of them. I write about platforms; Substack is a platform. Platforms have pretty predictable dynamics between the creators who operate on them and the executive teams. And content moderation is an issue, monetization is an issue, discovery is a huge issue. If Substack succeeds, all that stuff is going to come its way. And it’s gonna be stuff that I’m covering very closely.
如果Substack自己的审核问题成为您的重灾区，您将如何覆盖Substack？ 我要掩盖他们的地狱。 我写关于平台的文章； 子堆栈是一个平台。 在平台上进行操作的创造者与执行团队之间，平台具有相当可预测的动态。 内容审核是一个问题，货币化是一个问题，发现是一个巨大的问题。 如果Substack成功，那么所有的事情都会发生。 这将是我要密切关注的内容。
Do you see any problems coming your way with covering Substack? Even if Substack doesn’t give you trouble about it, do you foresee conflicts of interest and so on?Obviously I’m going to have to disclose anything that I’m getting or have gotten from Substack in the past, just as part of my coverage. One of the Substack founders, Hamish McKenzie, worked in journalism, and one of the things that appeals to me about the platform is that one of the three founders just knows this world. So I think they’re going to be relatively well prepared to start getting those questions.
您是否发现覆盖Substack遇到任何问题？ 即使Substack不会给您带来麻烦，您是否可以预见到利益冲突等等？ 显然，作为覆盖范围的一部分，我将不得不披露过去从Substack获得或获得的任何信息。 Substack的创始人之一Hamish McKenzie从事新闻业，而对我而言，该平台的吸引力之一是三位创始人之一才了解这个世界。 因此，我认为他们将为开始解决这些问题做好充分的准备。
“Once journalists figured out that you could get infinite retweets by typing ‘Facebook is bad’ into a box, it totally changed the tenor of the coverage.”
“一旦记者发现您可以通过在框中输入“ Facebook不好”来获得无限次转发，则完全改变了报道的期限。”
Even if it’s not about the platform per se, a lot of people are on this platform, and their work might also become the subject of this newsletter.I think that’s true. I think right now, Substack feels like infrastructure, and so it doesn’t seem like there are hard questions about it. It’s almost like saying, “Cloudflare is doing a lot of DNS for some of the companies you’re writing about. How are you going to approach writing about Cloudflare?” It’s like, well, they do DNS for a lot of people; I don’t know how relevant that is to me. But I think as they add features, if it starts to feel more like I visit Substack dot com and here are my Substacks but they’re promoting these other Substacks… I don’t know how it’s going to evolve, but you can see a world where it feels like an actual publication rather than infrastructure. And that’s when I think all those questions become more pressing.
即使与平台本身无关，很多人都在该平台上，他们的工作也可能成为本新闻的主题。 我认为是真的。 我认为，现在，Substack感觉就像是基础架构，因此似乎没有关于它的棘手问题。 几乎就像在说：“ Cloudflare正在为您所写的一些公司做很多DNS。 您将如何着手撰写有关Cloudflare的文章？” 就像，他们为许多人提供DNS； 我不知道这对我有多重要。 但是我认为当他们添加功能时，如果开始感觉像我访问Substack dot com，这是我的Substack，但他们正在推广其他Substack……我不知道它会如何发展，但是您可以看到感觉像是实际出版物，而不是基础架构。 从那时起，我认为所有这些问题都变得更加紧迫。
I do think it’s going to happen. But I kind of honestly don’t know to the extent they want to be infrastructure and the extent to which they want to be like, you know, everyone’s homepage for news.
我确实认为这将会发生。 但老实说，我有点不知道他们想要成为基础架构的程度以及他们想要成为什么样的程度，就像每个人的新闻主页一样。
A couple years ago, you mentioned to me that you thought the future of the internet was email. Do you still think that?I think email is the present. We’ll see how long that present endures. I feel like in media, you’re always having to go find your audience again every six months. But email has been remarkably stable.
几年前，您向我提到您认为互联网的未来就是电子邮件。 你还这么认为吗？ 我认为电子邮件是现在。 我们将看到礼物持续多久。 我觉得在媒体中，您总是必须每六个月再次寻找一次受众。 但是电子邮件已经非常稳定。
I think we live in a world where the default content discovery action is scrolling with your thumb. And — this observation is Ben Thompson’s — email is the only feed you’re already checking that I can insert myself into for free. So it has been a very popular spot for people who want to do media, because you can do really in-depth, high-quality content in a feed that people are already checking. As long as that remains the case, then I think it’s a really good media format.
我认为我们生活在一个默认的内容发现操作正在用您的拇指滚动的世界中。 而且-这是本汤普森(Ben Thompson)的-电子邮件是您已经检查过的唯一供稿，我可以免费将自己插入。 因此，它对于想要做媒体的人来说是一个非常受欢迎的地方，因为您可以在人们已经检查过的feed中做真正深入，高质量的内容。 只要情况仍然如此，那么我认为这是一种非常好的媒体格式。
To say more obvious things: I can reach you directly. I don’t have to chase you on Twitter. I don’t have to chase you on Facebook. I don’t have to hope that my story appears below the Google search box. You and I made this deal that I’m going tell you stuff, four days a week, at 5 p.m. Pacific, and you’re just going to be reading it until it’s too much and you unsubscribe.
要说些更明显的话：我可以直接与您联系。 我不必在Twitter上追逐您。 我不必在Facebook上追逐您。 我不必希望我的故事出现在Google搜索框下方。 您和我达成了一项协议，我将在太平洋时间下午5点每周四天告诉您一些事情，您将一直在阅读它，直到价格过高而您取消订阅为止。
And I love that model. It’s so real. Every day, I send out my newsletter, and 20 people immediately unsubscribe. [Laughs] And it’s like, I’ve just decided to lean into it. I’m not gonna cry because it’s over—I’m gonna smile because it happened and thank you for the time you spent with me. And then I’m going to try to find some new subscribers.
我喜欢那个模特。 是真的每天，我都会发送时事通讯，然后有20个人立即退订。 [笑]就像，我刚刚决定去研究它。 我不会因为结束而哭泣-我会因为发生了笑而微笑，并感谢您与我在一起的时间。 然后，我将尝试寻找一些新订户。
It blew my mind when Caity Weaver did that piece in the Times looking at the royal family Instagrams, and it turned out one of the hallmarks of an account with fake followers is that it never loses followers when it posts. Because organic growth is that you immediately lose followers as soon as you post.[Laughs] It’s so true. It’s brutal, and it’s real.
当凯蒂·韦弗(Caity Weaver)在《泰晤士报》(Times)上观看王室Instagram那段时，我大为震惊。事实证明，拥有假追随者的帐户的标志之一是，发帖时绝不会失去追随者。 因为自然增长是您发布后立即失去关注者。 (笑)这是真的。 这是残酷的，是真实的。
You’ve always been one of the more optimistic tech journalists I know. It’s been interesting to have you write a newsletter about one of the darkest sides of technology in the present era. How are you feeling about tech right now?It’s funny—I think in 2017, because of everything that had happened in the 2016 election, I felt like I had become one of the more consistently critical journalists about the platforms that I cover. And I feel like in the years since, people have become so much madder at platforms that I was then that I actually look like a centrist compared to most folks.
您一直是我认识的最乐观的科技记者之一。 有趣的是，您撰写了有关当前时代技术最黑暗的方面之一的新闻通讯。 您现在对科技的感觉如何？这很有趣–我认为在2017年，由于2016年大选所发生的一切，我感到自己已成为所涵盖平台的最关键的记者之一。 从那以后的几年里，我觉得人们对平台变得如此疯狂，以至于那时我与大多数人相比实际上看起来像是中间派。
Once journalists figured out that you could get infinite retweets by typing “Facebook is bad” into a box, it totally changed the tenor of the coverage. I think Facebook has done a lot that it has to answer for, but rather than write one sweeping take about a company every day, I would rather investigate some facet of the platform.
一旦记者发现您可以通过在框中键入“ Facebook不好”来获得无限次转发，则彻底改变了报道的期限。 我认为Facebook已经做了很多必须要解决的事情，但我宁愿调查一下平台的某些方面，而不是每天写一份关于公司的详尽报道。
I think these platforms are literally too big for us to understand. I think the only way to understand them is to try to take a bunch of different cuts at it. There will be time to say all the criticism that needs to be said, but I also think we have to think hard about the world we’re trying to build.
我认为这些平台实际上太大了，我们无法理解。 我认为了解它们的唯一方法是尝试采取一系列不同的措施。 会有时间说出所有需要说的批评，但我也认为我们必须认真思考我们要建立的世界。
There are already countries that have used the threat of fake news to eliminate vast swaths of free speech on the internet. We are living potentially during the collapse of American democracy. And I do not want to live in a world where I cannot speak my mind on the internet, even though me having that right means that a lot of horrible things are going to get posted. So, I want to be really careful as I think through my feelings about that. And I don’t want to ever reduce that down to “this platform sucks because there was a bad post on it.” I would say that is the level at which the mainstream discussion of speech and safety issues is now taking place. And I think that’s bad.
已经有一些国家利用虚假新闻的威胁来消除互联网上大量的言论自由。 在美国民主崩溃期间，我们有可能生活。 而且，我不希望生活在一个无法在互联网上说出自己的想法的世界，即使我拥有正确的权利也意味着很多可怕的事情将要发布。 因此，当我根据自己的感受进行思考时，我要非常小心。 而且我也不想将其降低到“这个平台很烂，因为上面贴了一个不好的帖子。” 我要说的是，现在正在对语音和安全问题进行主流讨论。 我认为这很糟糕。
Do you think there’s anything good about tech right now?Yeah! I think individual creators being able to monetize directly is frickin’ dope.
您认为现在技术有什么好处吗？ 是的我认为能够直接获利的个人创作者就是Frickin的涂料。